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Cam Break in question

Printed From: The Ford Torino Page
Category: Model Specific Forum
Forum Name: General Automotive Technical Discussion
Forum Description: Technical Automotive discussion of anything not specific to mid-size Ford/Merc
URL: https://forum.grantorinosport.org/forum_posts.asp?TID=1717
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Topic: Cam Break in question

Posted By: BBPeik
Subject: Cam Break in question
Date Posted: 13-October-2008 at 4:57AM

I read that you all said that the shell rotella oil was good for camshaft break in. Should I still use that even if I have the brea in lube that was supplied with my cam from comp cams? Just wondering

Thanks Brendan

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Replies:

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 13-October-2008 at 4:59AM

Also one other thing. Any tips on figuring out my new pushrod length would be great. I have the measurement tool, but any info from experience could be helpful.

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: starsky76
Date Posted: 13-October-2008 at 1:46PM

Yes use the shell oil also.I assume you have an adjustable pushrod to get your length?Pick a cylinder up front,I use either #1 or #5 and get it to TDC so both valves are closed and the lifters for that cylinder should be bottomed out/all the way down.Then put your adj pushrod in,install rocker,leave nut off for now. (are you using roller rockers? kinda need to know that and stud mount rockers? that also).Adjust pushrod,make longer,until the rocker looks pretty level based on the angle of the valve cover rail,you want it at similar angle for now to get it close.If you have stud mount rockers,you should have about 6 threads coming through rocker.Put nut on finger tight,You don't want to preload the lifter,so as your tighting nut,with the other hand,wiggle pushrod up and down until there is no more play and STOP.this is zero preload.You then want to rotate motor over and watch how the roller tip moves on the valve tip.You want it to be even in its motion for and aft.Not much towards either end of the valve tip or it will make the valve ride at an angle in the guide.If you put some lube or grease on the valve tip before you do this,you can see how its riding when you take rocker offJust keep adjusting pushrod until you have an even travel on valvetip..Also see how pushrod moves through hole in the head,make sure its centered.Its a lot to explain,hope this helps.

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 13-October-2008 at 2:45PM

That was pretty much what I had figured by reading several threads and by looking at some instructions, but that helps a lot. I am putting in roller rockers with the stud conversion kit. The kit does come with pushrod guides which should help the geometry of the pushrod. I am putting the motor in tomorrow and then the heads will go on. So on and soforth. Anyway I will post some pics of the motor as it sits. Thanks again. Brendan

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: starsky76
Date Posted: 13-October-2008 at 3:41PM

One tip on the guide plates.Make sure they go on flat against the head,meaning no washer underneath and also no washer under stud.I have seen people put them there from cars I have worked on.Also 55ft lbs torque on studs and a dab of sealer can't hurt.Make sure you get hardened pushrods for use with your guideplates,non hardened will put metal in your motor from rubbing on the guideplates.Just some tips.Glad I could help.

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 14-October-2008 at 2:50AM

Thanks that helps a lot. I would not have known about the hardened pushrods. That could have been very bad. Dont want metal in the motor. Thanks again Brendan

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: JimW
Date Posted: 14-October-2008 at 5:22AM

Rotella is good, as is Valvoline Racing oil, and if you want to give it a belt and suspenders approach, get the GM E.O.S., it's another shot in the arm for zinc content.

Jim

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1976 S&H Gran Torino

460/C6/4.33 13.05@105.6

545/C6/3.56 11.52@117.8

More to come!!!!

463rwhp/495rwtq

two tons of fun

see it and hear it at:

www.torinocobra.com

www.st

Posted By: GranTorinoMan
Date Posted: 15-October-2008 at 4:26AM

I just went through a successfull cam break in process in September and I followed these tips from people who now their stuff.

1/ Break In Oil - Castrol Non-Detergent Motor Oil

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_nondetergent_motor_oil_1058.pdf - http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/bp_internet/castrol/castrol_usa/STAGING/local_assets/downloads/p,q/pds_nondetergent_motor_oil_1058.pdf

2/ Use a bottle of CompCam Engine Break-In Oil Additive

http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp?ListHistoryID=833414428 - http://www.compcams.com/information/whatsnew/NewsDetails.asp?ListHistoryID=833414428

3/ Pre-lube engine just before start up using drill adapter, make sure oil shows on all the rockers.

4/ Install distributor correctly and make sure timing is as accurate as possible.

5/ "DO NOT LET YOUR ENGINE IDLE", bring RPM to 2500 ASAP and hold it there for 10 min.

6 / Vary engine speed over the next 15 minutes - 2200 - 5 min, 2700 - 5 min, 2300 - 5 min.

7/ Change oil and filter right after shut down while oil is hot.

8/ Refill with - Castrol Non-Detergent Oil and another bottle of Compcam Break-In Oil.

9/ Run engine for 500 miles to seat rings.

10/ Change oil & filter, use oil with detergent and Zinc additive including another bottle of CompCam Engine Break-In Oil additive.

http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=56&catid=15&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Lucas%20Semi-Synthetic%2010W-40 - http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=56&catid=15&loc=show&headTitle=%20-%20Lucas%20Semi-Synthetic%2010W-40

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 15-October-2008 at 9:03AM

That sounds pretty good. Here is the question. I am using copper head gaskets that say to let the engine idle until hot and then let the engine cool and re torque. Do you think that the higher rpms for the camshaft break in will effect the head gaskets? I do not imagine that it would but another opinion would be nice.

Thanks Brendan

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: ramair351
Date Posted: 15-October-2008 at 11:52AM

i hear the gm EOS additive is no longer available from gm.

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-Pete
1972 montego GT
1970 Torino cobra SCJ
1970 mustang mach 1
1965 Falcon futura

Posted By: GranTorinoMan
Date Posted: 16-October-2008 at 3:49AM

If your head gaskets were properly torqued down and if your block and head surfaces were

machined flat there shouldn't be any leaks. Besides 2-3000 rpm isn't high revs in my opinion. I use Cometic head gaskets, they can be re-used (3 X so far) and they have never leaked. http://www.cometic.com/catalogs/AutoDomestic.pdf - http://www.cometic.com/catalogs/AutoDomestic.pdf

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 16-October-2008 at 8:47AM

The head gaskets that I got are SCE pro copper. They say that they can be reused as well. They were probably just being over cautious about the break in. To cover their butts so to speak. Everything is flat so I imagine they will be just fine. I got all the oil and additive that was recommended. So as soon as it is all together everything should be just fine. Thanks again Brendan

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 16-October-2008 at 8:50AM

Another question. I am not going to be driving the car much. Since it still needs the paint and all. How much should I run the car in the garage to help with the ring break in?

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: starsky76
Date Posted: 16-October-2008 at 2:04PM

I would seriously reconsider those copper head gaskets.They are way overkill for your car.They can and do leak and you usually have to use some type of spray sealant on them.They are more for race only applications or big nitrous hits and are made reusable for guys who tear down thier motors a lot,like race motors.Just trying to save you headaches down the road,if you want reliability,stick with some felpro stock type head gaskets.I'm speaking from experience,You will have problems with them.If you want to put it together and forget it,get some stock felpro's.No retorque required.My mustang took 150hp shots of nos on felpro's all day long,so thats saying something.Ditch those coppers.

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 16-October-2008 at 2:47PM

Half the reason that I am using the copper is that I wanted a thinner head gasket for higher compression. The gasket is .021. I want the motor to be in the 10.5 range. What kind of problems did you have with the ones that you used. The gaskets are still unopened. So I can probably return them. Thanks Brendan

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 16-October-2008 at 3:09PM

So after doing some research I am returning the head gaskets. Seems a lot of people say the same thing as you. The main reason that I ordered them was for the compression. However, that was before I new the motor was .030 over. That gives me back some of the compression that I was going to lose by switching back to the regular head gaskets. Looks like I will be at about 10.1/1 when I am done now. Still decent compression. Thanks for the input on those gaskets. I want a motor that will be somewhat reliable. Thanks a bunch Brendan

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: starsky76
Date Posted: 16-October-2008 at 4:39PM

A stock felpro is about .040,so your not really gaining much.10.1 is a great ratio,my car is about same at 10.2.If you wanted to gain compression,milling the heads is the easiest and you don't have to remove much to gain more.To pick up a 2/10ths of compression,you only have to mill down the heads by 2cc's,I don't know how many thousandth's that is,maybe 10-15,but its well within the range of keeping the head and intake aligned still.When I had my 5.0 mustang I milled the trickflow heads down from 61cc to 57cc and all was still good,got 10.3 to 1 out of it.Your actually gaining about 6 cubic inches with the overbore and your probably losing a little compression since total cylinder volume is increased,don't sweat it though,its not something your going to notice or feel.stick with reliability for a street car and you be much happier.Hell,I'm sticking with a clutch fan in my torino,it'll be a newer one from a 5.0 mustang,but it's damn reliable and it will always work compared to an electric fan.I did use the coppers once in my 67 mustang years back,they didn't hold up very long before they started to leak and I did use the spray sealant on them.Thats a car you don't want to do head gaskets in being a big block with hooker headers,major pain in the ass.

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 17-October-2008 at 2:21AM

I was actually wondering about doing an electric fan, huh. I already milled the heads. I had .020 removed and therefore lost about 3.5 cc in the head volume. I should be just fine as far as compression goes. I would rather have a more reliable street motor than a pain that has to be torn down every week. Another question that I had was if it matters which head goes on which side of the motor. I lost track of which was which a long time ago. They look just about identical, but I was not sure. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks Brendan

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: starsky76
Date Posted: 17-October-2008 at 1:39PM

You can do the electric fan,but I prefer the clutch fan,its all preference.There are some nice ones in summit,If I were you I'd get one like a black magic or the dual mini fans and get it with an adjustable thermostat.This way you can set it to come on and off at a certain temp.If you had them milled then you should be around your 10.1 to 1,thats fine.Your using the windsor now I think you said?It doesn't matter which one goes where,just check to see if there is a large hole at each end of each head,that would be the emissions tube hole,if no big hole then you have pre emission heads and they can go either way.What year is the engine and heads?If your not sure,post some pics of each end of one head.Then I can tell you what you have.

Posted By: BBPeik
Date Posted: 18-October-2008 at 3:51AM

I am running a cleveland not a windsor. It looks like the heads are interchangable nut I wanted to make sure.

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1973 Gran Torino Sport 357 Cleveland FMX 3.50 auburn pro posi 1969 Black Jade

Posted By: dannys73
Date Posted: 18-October-2008 at 4:44AM

I am really enjoying this forum. I have been looking for a decent forum for at least 2 years. My 351 C Q code has the open chamber heads, but I have been told by several Ford Experts that I would realize a lot more power and compression by going to closed chambered versions. Are there 4V closed chambered heads or are there only 2v Closed chambered heads. What year model heads should I look for and what are the casting numbers I need to look for? I have heard I should look for 70-71 heads, but I am also looking at Aussie heads. Any input? Thanks.

Danny

http://www.ausfordparts.com/ausheads.html - http://www.ausfordparts.com/ausheads.html

Posted By: starsky76
Date Posted: 18-October-2008 at 11:26AM

I wasn't sure if you were using the cleveland or windsor,I think I had you motor job mixed up with another poster.You should be ok,the cleveland I'm no expert on,because you never see them anymore like windsor motors which had a much longer production run.

Posted By: starsky76
Date Posted: 18-October-2008 at 11:31AM

Danny,you might want to start a new topic aimed at the cleveland owners.I am more of a windsor guy.You will gain more compression from the closed chamber heads,but how much more is the question.If they make it go to high like 10.7 to1 or higher,your looking at having to run race gas because theirs not enough octane in pump gas.You would have to do all the math on this to figure out what final comp ratio would be before you spend $1.You need the cc's of the aussie heads or a 4V closed head to figure that out or any other head your looking at.