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1968 390 gt oil leaks

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72 RS 351 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 1968 390 gt oil leaks
    Posted: 19-April-2021 at 4:42AM
Very good, now drive the tires off of it.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-April-2021 at 4:16AM
Turns out it was the cap that came with the new MC. I ordered a new one (bronze colored) and it had the correct fit and the leak stopped. Finally, no more brake fluid leaks! 

Also put on some new kicks (radial T/A) and she is driving great again. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-March-2021 at 2:19AM
That's odd with the master cylinder leak.  How badly is it leaking out?  It shouldn't require much to seal up. Maybe you are right that the sealing surface is too pitted.

For the paint restoration, I have used this guys method before.  It is a lot of work, but it does work very well.

Vince

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-March-2021 at 2:27PM
i'd try Meguiar's Cleaner Wax first, it's pretty harmless but works a treat

https://www.meguiars.com/automotive/products/meguiars-cleaner-wax-a1216-16-oz-liquid
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-March-2021 at 10:07AM
OK, all lines have been replaced, even the small ones around the proportional valve. Now my only issue is the master cylinder leaks out of the cap, and it's a new MC. I have tried repositioning it, bending the bar to clamp down harder, and it still leaks. I just ordered a new cap and gasket so I am hoping this will help, however it does seem like the MC surface is a little pitted so maybe I am wasting my time. 

Also-- anybody have a good go to setup for polishing the original single stage paint? The paint is really in pretty amazing shape, however there are spots of oxidation and some water spots I would love to be able to remove. I am a bit hesitant to dive in as I don't want to remove too much while doing this.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-March-2021 at 1:18PM
Are you talking about the lines between the Master cylinder and the Proportioning valve? Do yours have vibration loops in them (small individual coils)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jversch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-March-2021 at 1:35AM
The tight bends can be done , just takes a little time and work it slow. I have used a deep well socket to help make it without kinking the tubbing . I think they also make a pair of pliers to help make tight bends. The copper line should be easy to work with being softer.
Jerry VerSchneider
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-March-2021 at 3:07PM
Yeah, you can see the tight bends on the image I posted earlier in the thread. they are tight. I think I will just go with a more indirect path to get them done. The car is so stock that I think the guy was hesitant to try and do those. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-March-2021 at 12:07PM
Those must be mighty tight bends to be trouble to replicate. If there is room nearby, I'd just make then use more space, even turn them away and loop them back. The radius of the bends is the issue I'm sure.
Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-March-2021 at 11:33AM
Hello all, 

All brake lines have been replaced (with copper) other than the two tight curved lines on the proportional valve. The person I had do the lines said they are not able to make those tight of bends without breaking the lines. I contacted inline tube and they will only sell me the kit for the whole car, not the two small lines needed. 

Any suggestions or does anybody know where I could find these? Perhaps I could tell them I don't care how it looks (I had them bend all the others to match the stock paths) and maybe they could do a big loop or something. 

Also, anybody have any tricks to remove stubborn water spots from original paint from 1968? haha 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-March-2021 at 8:43AM
or it had the wrong master on it?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-March-2021 at 8:38AM
It's disc up front and drum in the back. The MC looks the same, other than the top cap is grey and not gold colored like the original. I'll try and find an older pic to double check. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-February-2021 at 6:18AM
i realized something when i wasn't even trying, i think the reason the leaking line is all bent out of shape is because you have the wrong master on the car. if i'm right your original master had the line coming out of the unused boss on the side like the rear line, not the down schnozzle. i read somewhere why the masters are different but that brain cell took a leave, it may have been hardtop / convertible or something to do with the brake config whether they're manual drum, power drum, manual disc/drum or power disc/drum i forget but there's a reason the master was different from the factory. different applications

what is your brake configuration?


or it could just be bent
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-February-2021 at 4:33AM
Yeah, the lines are pretty rough in some spots, look new on others. Overall the car body/frame has extremely little rust, as it was a Kansas car garaged it's whole life. During the 19 years I have had it it has only seen rain 2 times and never has been driven on a winter road with salt. I also sprayed the undercarriage when I got it. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 12:14PM
FWIW, I had an almost brand new master cylinder leak out the back seals too.  There are lots of made in China junk parts out there today, so it may be leaking even if just replaced.  Good call on replacing all of the lines, they look pretty rough.  I usually make my own lines, but I have heard good things about inline tube.  NiCopp is great if you do decide to make your own.  They are corrosion resistant and very easy to bend and flare.

Edited by 72FordGTS - 28-February-2021 at 6:20AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 10:29AM
he probably noticed it and said Censored that doesn't matter

you can remove the 2 bolts that hold the master on and slide it forward a little to inspect for any quantity of fluid hanging out in the booster. soak up as much as you can with shop / paper towels and reinstall the master. dry the area with Brakleen or carb cleaner

do you love it as much as i do when somebody provides you a service and you have to do the job over besides cleaning up his mess to boot?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 9:14AM
The old master cylinder was bad, so maybe I am just seeing the residual/damage from the old one. The bottom of the booster is all rusted with the paint stripped away, so I think it had been leaking there a while. See the pic below-- sorry it's rotated for some reason. MC is grey  

I have read about fluid migrating into the booster, however I feel the mechanic should have noticed this. I'm really thinking about replacing it all at this point (booster, MC, lines, etc). 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 8:56AM
could the fluid be migrating to the booster?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 8:17AM
Shouldn't be any fluid there to leak. That would indicate a failed Master Cylinder
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 7:42AM
Thanks for the suggestions. I loosened the nut and tried to straighten the line out. Hopefully this slows it down. On further inspection I also see it's leaking between the MC and the booster, so perhaps that seal is bad as well. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 6:36AM
so much for the good mechanic. replacing a master on a 1968 anything should've included the lines to the prop valve, just because.

you can see that the line is tweaked from the 1st try at loosening it, the 1st thing i'd do is loosen the tube nut and try to correct the angle of the line coming out of the master. it should be coming out straight down rather than the 10* angle it is now. hopefully the flare in the old line will reseal once it's put back straight.

next worst case you buy a short brake line with ends formed and nuts installed and bend it yourself, it's easy

next worst case you get yourself a complete brake line kit and install it yourself, or by a slightly better mechanic. this is one source, there are others
https://www.inlinetube.com/pages/product-list?year=4212202341531695823&make=1828299879717471912&model=4907562634040960157#?f=6883668340566495367|

if you don't have them, buy a couple tubing wrenches that cover the sizes of tubing nuts on your car or just grab a set. if you're going to replace a line straight away, just cut the tube coming out of the tube nut and use a 6 point socket rather than dick with the wrenches. a good pair of diagonal cutters will do the trick and you can right on the tube nut solidly with the socket

as far as the valve cover gaskets go, if the engine runs good and you don't intend to pull the covers off for rocker lash adjustment between rounds, i'd skip the gaskets and use just RTV silicone. get the surfaces very clean and oil free and the covers will stay on with no bolts, but use the bolts to locate the covers until the RTV sets LOL. but seriously, RTV won't leak, ever, if you prep the surfaces well

relax, you got this man!


Edited by Rockatansky - 27-February-2021 at 6:47AM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 4:21AM
Are they stainless? No experience here except making my own.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-February-2021 at 4:19AM
I did some crawling under the car last night and although large sections of the lines are ok, there is a lot of corrosion in places. I think I'm going to replace all of them just to be safe. I found a prefab kit (steel) made by inline tube that should be a direct match. $165 for all the lines and fittings. Anybody have experience with their products? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2021 at 3:52PM
You will most likely break the rubing on the fittings when removing the old ones. It is typical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2021 at 3:50PM
Get the bending tool and a flare kit. Make a couple of test pieces and bend them to find the limit. The worst part is forgetting to put the nut on and making a perfect flare. Take your time. 

The master cylinder has seals that are simple to replace. Pull it out and return it for a new one. Once you have gone through all the brake components, you will be confident that it will stop like it is supposed to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2021 at 3:07PM
That sounds encouraging. Tomorrow I am going to clean what surface rust I can off the lines and see what shape they are in overall. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2021 at 12:59PM
If it is a short line, that you could bend to shape with raw Nicopp, with the two fittings on it, take it to someone who can form the flared ends for you, and the bends of the line will allow it to fit easily. Long lines are a different matter, those usually have to be made(form the ends) in the vehicle.

I helped a friend about ten years ago with a MC swap, his 90 Lincoln LSC had a bad MC, and those are massive and complicated(TEVES brake system). One of his old lines(left front) would not come out of the MC, rounded the fitting off finally. I bought some Nicopp line locally, about three feet, and had a line bent up in about ten minutes. The ends took a good five minutes each, so the whole line was about an hour with driving to a local hydraulics business that carried the Nicopp line.
Don
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2021 at 12:35PM
So I whipped off the fluid on the bottom of the MC port and drove it and cam back. Wet again. It's definitely a leak. I am thinking forming brake lines for a fitting is beyond my limited skill set, haha. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jkluesner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2021 at 12:17PM
Yeah, a quick search online and I am going to have a hard time finding replacement lines. I found one company (inline tube) however I am afraid this will look no where near stock. I'm wondering if the mechanic bent that Bottom line when he installed the master cylinder Angry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-February-2021 at 12:02PM
Keep things nice and clean around where you are checking for leaks etc. It may be some wetness is from the MC change, and/or the top cover seal. Check if you can that the cover seal is working well, being crushed enough etc. That bottom line fitting looks like it might be a leak, the line looks a little bent at the fitting.

If you have to replace any line, try a pre-bent line of one exists in the right length with matching fittings. That'd be rare, so likely you would need to make it. NiCopp brake line is the best for making lines yourself, it's pliable and legal. Forming brake line ends for a fitting is tough but doable with a nice flaring tool.
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