Oil System

I want to do something similar as you Andy, but I want to pull more HP out of it.   To do that you either increase displacement or spin the motor faster....or both.   Perhaps a cast stroker kit with I beam rods...Scat 9000 crank and rods, forged pistons, bearings/rings, etc.   I have found for $1200 online.   Compared to all the machine work, shot peening, etc. It seems like a good value trade.

lynchster wrote: 1. Is anyone currently using modified cam bearings to substitute for installing restrictors? 2. Is anyone using both restriction and the external oil line? Thoughts?

lynchster wrote: Threads like this are exactly why I'm going to install the "back up" engine. It could take me an extra year or two just to sort out the original cobrajet. The oiling system has been one of the my great internal debates. Not that I haven't seen other pro - con articles involving the external line vs. restrictors and bushings, but the back and forth here is infinitely more helpful. I'm now actually leaning toward oil restriction. That and investing in a second set of crank bearings. I do have two questions for anyone. 1. Is anyone currently using modified cam bearings to substitute for installing restrictors? 2. Is anyone using both restriction and the external oil line? Thoughts?               This is an awesome thread guys, a credit to it's participants.

If you do the lifter bushings you wont need the external line.   That is my understanding from researching of this topic.   I'm wondering if you connect the lifter galleries at the front of the motor to help balance the oil distribution between the 2 banks....prolly overkill and I didn't see any background info from racers in the past doing this.

Edited by BackInBlack - 09-February-2012 at 2:09AM

lots of info, I wonder how much i will pull out from mine, 

Great comment, If money is an issue,  Start with the Block, do it right. Then add the great heads and intake, carb later. Do it once, do it right.

Taking a basic Q code, 260 hp open chamber motor 72-74 and going to a 71 boss 351 build is relatively inexpensive and nets about 100 -150hp, 350 - 400. 2k

To get up to 500 hp on motor means adjusting up the cam 630-650 solid or roller, parker or strip dominator intake, up the compression to 12-13, modify the oil system to spin more Rs, possible lifter bore inserts,( I don't think they are needed up to 7k) Extensive block and head work with 2.19 to 2.25 valves,Titanium. big oil pan, h beam rods. add another 2-3k.

A bbf will last much longer at lower RPM's for alot less and you can still put a power adder on to go to 700-900 hp in the future.  3-4k. . No replacement for displacement.  A pro built Kaase is about 9-10k, HMMMM.

I like to refer to the Falcon Build David Kee went thru. The build is at the end of their 4 speed tranny web site. Had they decided in the beginning to go all out, it would have saved alot of time and money. BUT,, and A BIG BUTT, there is alot of FUN going thru the process. They made a plan, changed the plan, changed the plan etc.

I have one of the 70 Falcons and plan to do some thing similar with a cleveland and Big Block Toploader....Another project that is on hold and down the road...

Network 54 has a nice thread on 500 hp cleveland from 2002.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/119419/thread/1037946092/1039206622/Recipe+for+500

Will have two nice fresh broke in Clevelands both with roller rockers, forged pistons, balanced, etc, 2-3k miles 72 2v oc 2800, comp cam, headers, or 72 4v 3800, w cc'd hds 4blt sig erson cam, exhaust manifolds, in cars now, can drive and hear run. I plan on putting them on the classified part area soon.

Dan

    "Retired, doesn't mean DEAD"
72 Formal Roof 351C 2V FMX 2500 Stall 3.89s TL
70 Fastback Mustang 4V 4BLT CC 5spd 3.50 TL
70 Falcon small body project
Fresh built 545 Dyno next month!!!
Go Mizzou.
Az, Wi, NV, MO

DM

Hey Andy,


Thanks for remembering, been a long long time.  The blue one and the white one went down the road, along with several ranchero's etc. but who knows, may come back around the block. Interesting how life often repeats itself and you don't have to be a VETERAN with PTSD to experience it...hahaha

I Have a nice clean 72, resto mod, everything but frame off, looking to move that, so I can work on my 70 falcon later this year.

Glad to see the thread on the Crown Vic body mounts, most guys used to use hockey pucks...Yes for real.

Good that you put the oil line on as safety measure, never know when the R's might reach the moon. I meant to say in my thread 6800-7000, most boss 351's shifted at 6000 to 6500 for the 1/4 mile tests from the factory at 13.53 104, memory not as good as it once was. But keeping the oil clean and using the remote oil filter cooler combo keeps the oil cooler and helps longevity. Less heat less wear, more HP.  By the way has there been a forum discussion on the new oils (past 6 yrs) not having zinc and the need to be careful putting non zinc oils in all older motors, Clevelands etc?  Zinc keeps friction down,

Picked up a place in the country, two huge sheds lots of room for cars.  Been warmer past week, working to sort and get stuff up off the floor and on shelves, make it look more like a shop than a pile. Lots of room, lots of land, actual oxygen in the air.

Nice to see your car......sweet.... great  combo and clean. Thinking when I go to Vegas of driving one of mine and stopping by for a cruise.....may have to fly, got 3 more storage units of parts and cars to clean out in Az, but might stop on way back in mid april if your going to be around.

The 545 stroker is done, bushed the lifter galleys for street/strip use, Kaase type Heads CNC'd by Scott MPG, Schneider 600 inch solid 278 @ 50...for now, can go alot bigger with a solid roller, but not friendly for the street, this combo should dyno 650 plus on hp and TQ.will find out soon..its sitting on a engine stand waiting for that moment of ignition and instant thunder. KEE  CHOW!!! Kinda excited to get it in Josh's 70 Montego, need CJ 2 1/8 or 2 1/4 headers if you know anyone, then his 500hp Cleveland goes into my 70 w C4, said it will be my last one, but SH's and we always have a disclaimer like, JUST KIDDING....or another idea, a BETTER IDEA......any.....FORD. 

Cleveland's live despite all the efforts of the unknowledgeable, unwilling, and the UN BRAND, to KILL them.  People will do anything to keep from being beaten by a FORD, but will always ask if it is a CHEVELLE??????? COME ON MAN!!!!

I joined primarily because I saw you are on here. So I know it is all good.

Thanks for your friendship,

Dan 

Miller Time                                                              "Retired, doesn't mean DEAD"
72 Formal Roof 351C 2V FMX 2500 Stall 3.89s TL
70 Fastback Mustang 4V 4BLT CC 5spd 3.50 TL
70 Falcon small body project
Fresh built 545 Dyno next month!!!
djmmiller@cox.net
Go Mizzou.
Az, Wi, NV, MO

DM

Hi, New Member, enjoy the threads and info. Interesting how the oiling system works. It can rob horse power either thru a lack of oil to left side lifters flattening out or heat build up due to not enough circulation fast enough to cool. Roush figured it out back in the 70's along with Scott Main owner of MPG HS and Cam Research, one of the best builders of Fords and the first Cam builder to flow heads and throw away the other brands cam Profiles to get the right cam/head combinations for Decades. His modification of the oiling system with the re route line talked about by previous members has been around for 35 plus years, long before ebay etc. So a wise investment for any combo and application on Cleveland's and bbf's along with an oil pan that gives enough volume to keep the engine cooler, hence an oil cooler is a very good idea.  I used a double remote filter on my street car back in the mid 70's,  which gives more available horsepower and greater longevity. Well worth the money spent. The cooler the block, the more available horse power.  I've had many combinations of Cleveland's and run into oil starvation at 5800-6000 Rpm on the street and track. All the oil goes to the right side head, bearings spin due to crank starvation. Back then I tried a holley oil cut off switch to protect my motor in my car, with the front lifting so hard, the oil would go to the back of the pan and shut the motor off with the switch, so I pulled the pan, welded a shield around the pump intake so just the screen would fit thru it and all the oil would not go to the back of the pan, then the RPM problem with the oil going to the right head, the car flattened out at upper RPM, Got Scott on the phone and picked up his hydraulic 597/562, put the line on and the rest is history.  So a penny of prevention is worth a pound of Cure, especially if you miss a shift, throw it in reverse etc.   I am glad to see all the interest and information and even some of the young people taking an interest in the vehicles and engines of the past.


Miller Time                                                              "Retired, doesn't mean DEAD"
72 Formal Roof 351C 2V FMX 2500 Stall 3.89s TL
70 Fastback Mustang 4V 4BLT CC 5spd 3.50 TL
70 Falcon small body project
Fresh built 545 Dyno next month!!!
djmmiller@cox.net
Go Mizzou.
Az, Wi, NV, MO

did you made a new pick up or still factory, I see your pan is deeper than stock

Its seems to me that at a minimum the bushings should be installed in the lifter bores and the cam bearings replaced with those you suggested.  Anything else is a stop gap measure.

I stand corrected about the external line....

Good post !

Edited by BackInBlack - 04-February-2012 at 12:33PM

Andy if your just looking for a quick fix and not a motor rebuild with bushings and cam restrictors; you can prolly just do a mechanical cam with oil restrictors in the push rods just to give you a little extra confidence that you wont break it if you push it hard.   This alone will help keep more oil in the bottom end instead delivering it to the valve train.

Edited by BackInBlack - 05-February-2012 at 12:09AM

i got some pics of my pan with 4 & 5 quarts in it. 4 qts put the level about 5 3/4" down from the top, with 5 qts it was 5 1/4" down from the top, rough estimate the crank is about 3 1/2" down into the pan

i think the pans are all the same at 5 qt's but the dipstick on some engines, Boss & HO? were calibrated for a 6 qt full mark

Edited by Rockatansky - 13-May-2011 at 5:06PM