Torque converter: to shim or not to shim? |
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dan0R30
Senior Member Joined: 30-June-2020 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 637 |
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Posted: 01-January-2023 at 7:51AM |
I just finished dropping my 351C back into the Torino and mated it up to my FMX. I used a Hughes 38-25 torque converter which has bolt holes instead of studs. The install sheet says the clearance to the flexplate should be between 1/8" and 3/16", and anything above should use high quality washers to shim. My average measurement is right around the max 3/16" (0.187), of which were taken while crawling under the vehicle, through the flexplate hole (subtracting out the thickness) with the depth gauge of a harbor freight digital caliper... My concern is that assuming worst case, on the higher end of my measurements I am at 0.191" and am unsure if this is acceptable. Furthermore, any 3/8 flat washer I've looked at in town is thicker than 0.066", which would put me below the 1/8" min clearance. ARP makes one that is 0.063" which would be acceptable, but if I'm really at 0.187" or less, I'll now be smaller than the 1/8" min. Am I ok as-is (without a shim) based on my average? Or would it be better to be closer to the 1/8" clearance? Or are both really negligible in my case?
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Dan
1970 Ford Torino hardtop - 351C 4V - FMX - 9" 3.89 TrueTrac |
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2767 |
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I believe that will be fine, I haven't read of what the clearance space should be. The actual worst case is if there is no clearance, which is somewhat common to read about when an engine fails, due to an eaten main thrust bearing. The torque convertor has to engage the trans properly, that's all about going in all the way to engage all spines and the pump fully. If the TC doesn't slide back and forth once the engine and trans are together, that's when you stop and re-seat the TC properly. But the proper clearance there I'd bet is in the 1/8"(low side) to 1/4" range. As I said I hadn't heard the official specs for that. Is it the same for all Ford automatics, I'd expect it's very close for them. I'll let you know next year about a 6R80 behind a 302 block.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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aquartlow
Senior Member Joined: 19-December-2011 Location: Summerfield, Fl Status: Offline Points: 2271 |
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If needed/wanted, get yourself some stainless steel washers, they are usually about 2/3-3/4 of the thickness of a comparable I.D. sized "regular" steel washer. The SS washers are also much more uniform in their thickness=less thickness variations. Hope this helps
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www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires. No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t. Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone. |
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hogfiddles
Moderator Group Moderator Joined: 19-September-2016 Location: Central NY Status: Offline Points: 1512 |
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“Somewhat common” Should be change to “pretty-much guaranteed”...... lol
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1973 Gran Torino Sport - Q code “Q-Clone” project-on-hold
1972 Gran Torino Sport - Q code new project 1972 Gran Torino - parts 1969 Torino GT - M code 95+/- mid-80's Yamaha XJ-Series (10 trophies) |
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dan0R30
Senior Member Joined: 30-June-2020 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 637 |
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Don - I had also seen the 1/4 number in some cases, so wasn't sure if the 3/16 was specific to Hughes or not (though it seems a common range for an aftermarket TC).
Todd - thanks for the tip! I have not found one here that has the smaller thickness yet, but a quick search shows there are 0.05" SS washers that would fit the bill. I'll keep looking at some other stores, but worst case I could order a box online; it is still some cheap insurance in the end. Dave - lol
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Dan
1970 Ford Torino hardtop - 351C 4V - FMX - 9" 3.89 TrueTrac |
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72 RS 351
Senior Member Joined: 04-September-2014 Location: Knoxville TN Status: Offline Points: 2767 |
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Yes there are nicer washers than typical hardware stuff. The SS take some time to find, the McCarr and Fastenal websites should have tons of choices. Some Fastenal places no longer carry the full catalog of parts though, many sources are going away. The fact you have some play is very good. Using OEM convertors requires less double checking. It is wise to check any combination of non stock parts for a TC etc, that end play is really important. I'm planning to measure that when I pull my 302/4R70W out, right when I take the nuts off of the convertor and the bell housing bolts are still tight. That's the measurement you want to aim for when putting it back together.
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Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W 73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later. 92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W |
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