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4 wheel Disc Brakes

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Dmarc28 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 4 wheel Disc Brakes
    Posted: 27-May-2021 at 6:36AM
Hey guys I have a question for everyone. 
I will be converting my 72 ranchero to rear disc brakes. I will be installing a complete rear end out of a 79 Lincoln Continental, that way I will have 4 wheel disc brakes. 

My question is, would I need a new/different proportioning valve since I will be going from disc/drum to disc/disc. It was also mentioned to me, by the shop that rebuilt my calipers, that since I will have 4 wheel disc I would not have to use a proportioning valve. 

Any insight and direction you guys would be able to point me in would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks for taking the time to stop by, read this, and offer any help you might have. 

-DeMarco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 6:55AM
Do yourself a favor and get a 4 wheel disc master cylinder and a 4 wheel disc proportioning/combination valve. A 4 wheel disc master cylinder from a '75 Ford Thunderbird and an aftermarket GM style prop valve will be a good combo to use. If you do not use a proportioning valve, the same fluid pressure will go to the rear calipers as the front sees, your Ranchero will exchange ends rather quickly when in an abrupt stop, mainly due to the rear calipers having a smaller piston area thus causing the rear tires to lock up before the fronts. 
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 7:08AM
Awesome, thanks for the info. Does the fact that I have a brake booster matter? Will that MC/PV combo work with the booster?

-DeMarco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 9:18AM
Originally posted by Dmarc28 Dmarc28 wrote:

Awesome, thanks for the info. Does the fact that I have a brake booster matter? Will that MC/PV combo work with the booster?

-DeMarco
 
Yes, the combo I described will work with hydro boost or a vacuum brake booster, no problem.  An 1 1/8" bore MC like the T-bird I mentioned has, will feel a bit heavier to push when using a vacuum booster, due to it having less "assist" as compared to a hydro-boost booster, that said it shouldn't be a night and day difference, just a few percentage difference(like 5-10%). If wanted and/or needed a 1" bore disc/disc master cylinder could be substituted which would give an easier to push pedal with more pressure at the sacrifice of having more pedal travel to make up for the less volume of a smaller MC bore. It is all a balancing act when dealing with having adequate brake fluid pressure and pedal feel.
www.supermotors.net/22468
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 9:24AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Originally posted by Dmarc28 Dmarc28 wrote:

Awesome, thanks for the info. Does the fact that I have a brake booster matter? Will that MC/PV combo work with the booster?

-DeMarco
 
Yes, the combo I described will work with hydro boost or a vacuum brake booster, no problem.  An 1 1/8" bore MC like the T-bird I mentioned has, will feel a bit heavier to push when using a vacuum booster, due to it having less "assist" as compared to a hydro-boost booster, that said it shouldn't be a night and day difference, just a few percentage difference(like 5-10%). If wanted and/or needed a 1" bore disc/disc master cylinder could be substituted which would give an easier to push pedal with more pressure at the sacrifice of having more pedal travel to make up for the less volume of a smaller MC bore. It is all a balancing act when dealing with having adequate brake fluid pressure and pedal feel.


Those are great guidelines, the MC piston sizes etc.

Do you have any idea if the later Mustangs(99-04) use the same MC bolt pattern? I'm putting one of those hydro-boost systems in my 92 Lincoln, and the same units would be easy to buy for use in the older Fords too. I've mentioned it before, I'm going to try to fit the 03-2011 Crown Vic rear brakes onto my 73. I have the set of parts but I decided against my 99 Explorer(retiring, so it's a spare vehicle soon). Those rear discs are very common right now, and they have good rotors and piston sizes for a large car.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 9:52AM
Hey Don,
 Not sure if the question above was for me, but IIRC the Mustang MC has mounting bolts/studs that are vertical whereas the T-bird and most Ford MC's have horizontal mounting points. That said, if you get a 99-04 Mustang HB then just use the Mustang MC of course. Not sure if this applicable, but as far as the mounting bolt pattern of the Mustang HB unit itself, I am not sure if it matches anything else. When I did my HB install, I used an Astro-van HB unit which utilizes an easily removable mounting plate which allowed me to fabricate a mounting plate to match my Ranchero's original brake booster mounting stud/firewall mounting hole configuration. Hope this is helpful
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 9:59AM
Thanks, I will look into it once I get the rearend in place. 

-DeMarco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 10:18AM
Originally posted by Dmarc28 Dmarc28 wrote:

Thanks, I will look into it once I get the rearend in place. 

-DeMarco
 
Just an FYI, '98-'02 Ford Crown Vic rear disc brake assemblies are almost a bolt-in on a small bearing '72 Torino/Ranchero 9" housing. I happen to use a small bearing housing out of a '72 Lincoln Mark IV under my Ranchero(mainly for the 31 spline axles and 4 pinion trac-lok carrier).  
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 10:25AM
I will be using a big bearing housing from a 79 continental with the coinciding calipers, rotors, and ordered new 28 spline axels with a new posi trac. I am using a WAR 3rd member casing, and am getting a fill plug put it in this week. I jus had a drain plug placed in the housing. 

Once I pick up the 3rd member and housing I will drop it off at my Differential shop and they will reassembly it will all new everything. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 10:32AM
if that lincoln is a parts car grab the other items from it... i believe its the same as other mark lincolns i used my booster, and the lincoln master with lines and prop valve with 2 line adapters for the rear line also the larger front rotors with caliper brackets from the lincoln, reusing my calipersWink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 10:43AM
I wish I could, but it was given to me by a good buddy of mine building the BBF I will be putting in Rancher replacing the 351c 2v it came with. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 10:47AM
Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Hey Don,
 Not sure if the question above was for me, but IIRC the Mustang MC has mounting bolts/studs that are vertical whereas the T-bird and most Ford MC's have horizontal mounting points. That said, if you get a 99-04 Mustang HB then just use the Mustang MC of course. Not sure if this applicable, but as far as the mounting bolt pattern of the Mustang HB unit itself, I am not sure if it matches anything else. When I did my HB install, I used an Astro-van HB unit which utilizes an easily removable mounting plate which allowed me to fabricate a mounting plate to match my Ranchero's original brake booster mounting stud/firewall mounting hole configuration. Hope this is helpful


That helps a lot, thanks. I prefer to use parts that are easier to get, and to install. So I'm not too picky, if the 99-04 MC doesn't adapt easily to the old Fords, I'll look at the Astro van for that hydro-boost MC.

I have a 95 CV still, and the rear rotors until 2003 were solid, and the 03+ is a vented 12" size, similar to the Cobra except with different piston sizes. I know the parking brake cable is odd(perpendicular going in), so it will require welding a tab onto the rear to hold the cable.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Bird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 1:50PM
Easy way to do this is Mark IV or V parts. If you can track them down, it's a bolt-on proposition.
There are some 75-76 Thunderbirds with the same system, parts as well.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 1:52PM
Are you talking to 72 Rd 351?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 2:07PM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

Originally posted by aquartlow aquartlow wrote:

Hey Don,
 Not sure if the question above was for me, but IIRC the Mustang MC has mounting bolts/studs that are vertical whereas the T-bird and most Ford MC's have horizontal mounting points. That said, if you get a 99-04 Mustang HB then just use the Mustang MC of course. Not sure if this applicable, but as far as the mounting bolt pattern of the Mustang HB unit itself, I am not sure if it matches anything else. When I did my HB install, I used an Astro-van HB unit which utilizes an easily removable mounting plate which allowed me to fabricate a mounting plate to match my Ranchero's original brake booster mounting stud/firewall mounting hole configuration. Hope this is helpful


That helps a lot, thanks. I prefer to use parts that are easier to get, and to install. So I'm not too picky, if the 99-04 MC doesn't adapt easily to the old Fords, I'll look at the Astro van for that hydro-boost MC.

I have a 95 CV still, and the rear rotors until 2003 were solid, and the 03+ is a vented 12" size, similar to the Cobra except with different piston sizes. I know the parking brake cable is odd(perpendicular going in), so it will require welding a tab onto the rear to hold the cable.
 I would say using the Mustang set-up as a whole would probably work well, now if trying to use a Mustang HB unit(hydraulic portion) and not use the vertically mounted Mustang MC then that would probably give you issues(trying to find another MC that will physically mount and work). I used the Astro van HB unit(hydraulic portion that mounts to firewall), but my MC is sourced from an '80 Corvette. I know sounds difficult/involved, but the Astro-van HB unit uses a shallow bore MC, which the Corvette MC has. The 'Vette MC also is a 4 wheel disc 1 1/8" bore MC and it has fender exit ports(I wanted this to get brake lines/hoses away from header heat). Yes, the '98-'02 rear rotors are solid(I did buy drilled and slotted for my application) and I also had to fab up E-brake cable routing and connection to Ranchero E-brake cable. As far as the Astro-van HB unit goes, it is very easily adaptable to just about any firewall, just need to pay attention to the HB unit's input rod in relation to the vehicle's brake pedal attachment point( I had to cut and weld the rod to work with my application). I initially cut the rod to be able to totally disassemble and re-seal the HB unit, once re-sealed I welded and gusseted the rod to add strength. I did many two feet on the brake pedal stops to ensure that there would be no issues, been installed since '10 or '11 and it's been all good.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

No matter how good she looks, somebody, somewhere, is tired of her sh*t.

Beauty is skin deep, ugliness goes clear to the bone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 3:45PM
Originally posted by Dmarc28 Dmarc28 wrote:

Are you talking to 72 Rd 351?



I'm sorry DeMarco, for cluttering up your thread. I thought you had received a very good answer to your question about MC and prop valve etc. I know that aquartlow is very familiar with various brakes, and the hydro boost systems for his Ranchero.

I think John was suggesting to you and me, or everyone, that there are bolt on rear disc brake parts from other 70's Fords, which need less extra stuff or labor. I hope your project goes smoothly, and a big block is a special deal of its own.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 3:49PM
Oh no worries. Yeah for sure, you guys completely helped out. 

That's my fault, I jus wasn't sure if some of the other stuff was for me. 

-DeMarco
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 3:59PM
There's a bunch of ways to upgrade the brakes, the OEM 70's Ford parts are the most direct with the least modifications needed. You are using some of that which you already have in hand. I'm planning my project with parts I don't have yet, but seem to be more common to find at parts stores. They will take more work to adapt for the most part, but they might be a little better in the end. I wish a lot of this information was known to the public in the 70's. It takes a lot of years for people to figure oot these details for parts swapping.
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73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 7:16PM
i info is here scroll down this link until you see scott's post listing the 6 or so 2005-----pdf files listed read threw them it will tell you all the info that's what i did on mineThumbs Up

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/1972-torino-brake-upgrade_topic413_page1.html

here's the rear of my car i did the front conversion first, the bigger front rotors gave me nearly twice the stopping powerShocked

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74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 7:25PM
here's my thread showing this... follow along on the next couple pages...

http://forum.grantorinosport.org/johns-74-sh-clone-build-thread_topic10024_page63.html
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 7:28PM
todd: do you remember the distance from the center of the brake pedal pivot to the center of the HB rod attachment point on the pedal? i measured it on the astro van i removed it from but forgot nowConfused
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
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75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aquartlow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27-May-2021 at 11:41PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

todd: do you remember the distance from the center of the brake pedal pivot to the center of the HB rod attachment point on the pedal? i measured it on the astro van i removed it from but forgot nowConfused
 
Hey CJ,
 I moved my pivot point on my brake pedal to give me a higher pedal ratio, IIRC. Doing this also lessened the angle on the input rod. I do not remember what the exact ratio worked out to be off the top of my head.
www.supermotors.net/22468
Yeah, It's a Hybrid...It burns gas and tires.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote madmaxtorino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01-June-2021 at 2:37PM
I have an NOS proportioning valve out of the four wheel disc brake cars, still in the ford box if you need one. will bolt on where your stock one is just different internal valving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-June-2021 at 4:02PM
Hi, I just saw this. 
I would love the proportioning valve if it is still available. 
I jus got my rear end back today. I'm going it have to rotate the calipers and brackets, but all in all it looks fugging amazing. 

Looks like this now.




But Started out like this. 





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30-June-2021 at 1:46AM
Those look great. For braking power, the OEM 70's discs may be the best choices, but I haven't checked the caliper piston size(affects power and balance). Ford did make good thick rotors back then, they made them thinner as time went on into the 90's.

I will prefer the later model brakes for ease of maintenance and finding parts. But any upgrade is a good thing IMO.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08-July-2021 at 7:36PM
Hey everyone, finally have an update. 
Finally got everything assembled. 
Had to add some spacers to the caliper bracket because the caliper was hitting the shock mount. So spaced them out, bolted them on, added a wheel adapter to go from 5x5 to a 5x4.5 wheel bolt pattern. 
I have some pictures.







Idk why the pictures upload all funky. They looked fine when I took.them ha. But this is way will be going in my Chero.



Edited by Dmarc28 - 08-July-2021 at 7:47PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mkshelton Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-July-2021 at 2:47AM
That is quite a few spacers. I would make sure that I was using the absolute highest rated bolt I could find. looks good though,  great job
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-July-2021 at 7:10AM
It is a number of them. I am using a grade 8 bolt, lock washers(spacers) and lock tite.
Once everything is under the car I was possibly thinking of getting a customer axle bearing/caliper bracket made to fit. 

And thank you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-July-2021 at 8:46AM
did you use the lincoln diff? it should fit fine mine did...
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74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dmarc28 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-July-2021 at 10:44AM
Yes sir, my buddy that's building my engine gave it to me all in pieces. 
Buuuuut they were all miss matched pieces. But I was able to make it work.

So I'm going to get everything prepped on my ranchero this weekend, so I can get ready to swap. 
Only thing I'm sketchy about is the parking brake stuff. But I'm sure it will be ok. 
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