More Engine Ideas (was TMeyer 400 Kit)

I know Tim is a busy guy, so I wanted to ask this here (and on the busy 335 section of FTE) what else I would need besides this kit...



Balanced 400 Rotating Assembly
$1199.00

...and these bits from Summmit:

CompCams Dual Energy 265DEH with lifters, valve springs and seals, timing set ($408)
CompCams stamped steel rocker arms, 1.73 ratio ($145)
ARP Intake Manifold Bolts ($27)
ARP Cylinder Head Bolts ($79)
ARP Main Cap Bolts ($33)
Airtex Fuel Pump ($21)
FelPro Valley Pan and intake gasket and sealant ($34)
Milodon Oil Pan Bolts ($7)
Mr. Gasket Overhaul Set ($44)
Sealed Power Oil Pump (std vol/std press) ($33)
Sealed Power Cam Bearings (set of 5) ($28)
Summit High Volume Water Pump ($65)

...and these Machine Shop Charges:

clean and prep block $75 (incl Magnaflux, honing, freeze plugs)
bore 8 cylinders to .030/.040 $80
cam bearing installation $35
hook 8 rods & pistons $48
clean and prep 2 heads $120

Total from Summit $894.00 plus $12.95 shipping
Total from TMeyer $1199.00 plus $??.?? shipping
Total from Ennis Machine Shop $358.00 plus tax on parts

I'm looking at $2460ish already and that's assuming my block, heads, and intake are all good and usable. I'm also not sure if that kit from TMeyer is a straight up 400 or some kind of stroker kit. Either way it's enough bits to turn my 351M into a 400. I would also need soft parts and sensors and such, radiator hoses, filters, fluids, belts, all that.

I just want to be sure I'm not missing anything or buying more than I need. It will be what I do with tax refund money in February. My wife gets a few thousand towards her Explorer, the house gets a fat principal payment, the kids will get new summer clothes and a few other things.

For now I'm about to drop the hammer on a 1993 Chrysler New Yorker from an impound auction. It's $250 now and I hope to get it for under $400. I talked to the driver who towed it in and he says it drives fine, guy was hauled in on a domestic violence warrant and he had a handgun in it, violating his restraining order. He's not getting out for a couple years. This ought to get me around fine for awhile and save me a ton of money on oil. I'm definitely taking that purple tint off the one window, though!

Edited by occupant - 12-December-2010 at 1:59PM

And of course as soon as I post this, I come up with something else. Another pipe dream I'm sure, but this one might work if I can get the cash in time...

'72 351CJ complete less carb for $500, 10K into a rebuild with RV cam

I'll need a carb, SBF bellhousing for the FMX (found a no good FMX for $25 has the bellhousing I need), and not sure what else.

I'm hoping this has the older 70-71 intake on it so I can use any square bore carb (Edelbrocks all over DFW CL for $100ish), or slap a $20 adapter on it and use my 2150 for now. That or I have to locate a usable 4300D carb. Yikes. I'm also hoping the 351M exhaust manifolds will fit it. If not, I may be out another $200+ for a pair of 4V manifolds. Guy claims it runs out nice but he needed the carb for his 351W Fox body Mustang.

I just got paid for the Snap-On bits I sold so I have like $160 so far. Friday is payday and I might add $300 to that. I hope it's enough for him, and he said he'll drop it off at the shop in town here. Then I gotta save up for whatever other bits and the $400 or so in labor to install it all.

I might have my car running strong by mid-January. Then $400 of tires and I'll be good to make the show in September.

So as far as this thread goes. I don't know. Wish I could retitle it.

Yeah if I could come up with nearly 3K then I could get a racing kind of motor. Like this Keith Craft 331 short block for $1000 and then a pair of aluminum heads. Or this late 90s Cobra engine complete with ECM and all for $1850.

I think the 351CJ will work. I can change bellhousing to SBF for like $25. Then I think the motor mounts will be the same, if not, I'm sure I can find someone with a Q-code on here who swapped to a 429 or something and buy their mounts. Everything else will be things I'd already be buying, like belts, hoses, plugs, wires, etc.

This guy and I are playing phone tag now.

edit1: 351C and 351M-400 motor mounts are ALMOST the same and available in repro for $39.99 a set so I'm certainly willing to spend the $40 to have the right shape and not worry about a third bolt hole not attached to anything.

edit2: he's willing to hold it til this weekend so I'm bugging the wife for more work projects we can bill between now and Friday...even if I have to leave it at my mechanic's shop for a couple weeks to save up for the carb, mounts, bellhousing, and his labor, I'm willing to do all that if he has an engine stand available to hold it.

QUESTION: would I want to use the flexplate and converter from my 351M-FMX I have now, or pick something else out? I believe this CJ has a flexplate but no converter, and was hooked up to a small pattern C6. So maybe I should put my bits on instead?

Edited by occupant - 13-December-2010 at 5:42AM

He says the rebuild was 4 years and 10K ago and it's .030 over with an RV cam. I think that's going to be appropriate for this car.

GOOD DEAL!

i find few companies that sell rebuilt car for the same price or less, they also sell carters, deamon, rochester for 170$-200$

if only i could pass by, you could save those 400$, but i'm pretty sure i can't come this month, even in january

I just saw this, glad your getting a good motor in there!  As for the motor mounts, the M block mounts and the 351CJ mounts are way off, a Cleveland uses plain old small block mounts and the M block motors have their own special mounts (a total PITA for sure).  Anyhow, I have the mounts you need in good condition as well as a Holley 600 with vac secondaries that are just sitting around collecting dust if you're interested, just let me know.

ANCHOR # 2370 & 2371, you can usually find an online discount code for Rock Auto

351M & 400 use a 3 bolt to the block engine mount

Works for me.

It's on for in the morning. Gonna throw a piece of plywood in the back of the Durango, throw a plastic dropcloth on it, hit an ATM, and head for this shop where it is. 351CJ will be in my mechanic's hands by afternoon. Once I get back in the house I have PayPal funds for Torkair and EliteMan76. Sometime over the weekend or on Monday I'll be headed up to Flower Mound to get that $15 transmission with the bellhousing I need. I'll inventory what all the engine has and doesn't have and make a RockAuto cart from there (I'll probably get plugs, wireset, cap, rotor, a few feet of vacuum hose, who knows what else).

I'm too excited to sleep. Gonna be hell trying to work in the morning knowing I'll only be a few hours away from repowering my car with something SOLID.

I think the 2V heads are better for low-end torque than the 4V's anyway. If you liked driving your car with the old engine you're gonna LOVE driving it now. It'll be a real sleeper, even more so with a better rear end ratio. 3:50's would be ideal IMO, when funds allow.

V-covers will work

Edited by Rockatansky - 21-December-2010 at 10:08PM

everything has some value... to someone, but i think you can get foil thick chromies for about $18 these days. i'm sure somebody will grab them if you put them up, and they're having a 'no listing fee sale' so you'll save an additional 23 cents!

Nothing new. Waiting on motor mounts from RacePages and will get the bellhousing Monday or Tuesday. Not much else to do at the moment. My mechanic is kinda pissed at me for not having this ready. He left my hood and driver door open over Christmas Eve and Christmas. I closed them this morning on my way to get donuts when I saw it. *grrr*

Just played around with CompCams software. For 2V heads (2.05int/1.65exh valves), dual plane intake, 600cfm carb, .030 overbore, 9.0:1 compression, the best fit cam is the 265DEH (I knew that somehow, and am not surprised)

With a completely stock exhaust, leaving the cats on, stock muffler, pump gas, and nothing else special, this engine should pull 258hp@4500rpm and 343ft-lbs torque @3500rpm. Nice. Way better than whatever this poor 351M was getting, knowing that it was 152hp and 276lbs of torque NEW and it's probably worn to half that.

Now when I search for an "RV" cam for a 351C I keep coming across higher duration (282/292) cams but with the same 484/510 lift. I'm not sure what's in there now. I may not know until it needs rebuilt again. But if it's got the same lift and a longer duration, I just hope it has a good idle quality.

What I like is armchair racing with it. If I change to short tube headers and no cats, I go from 258hp to 310hp. Torque jumps from 343 to 390! If I switch over to heads that resemble the 4V heads (2.17int, 1.73 exh valve size, ported) it jumps to 385hp and 418tq. Add a little more carb (650cfm) and a high-flow dual-plane intake and it's 415hp and 432tq.

So yes, small changes make a lot of difference. What I like is that the 265DEH cam still works well for all those changes above. Just the small tube headers give 60hp. That will absolutely be my first change then. The other things (4V heads, more carb, more intake flow, more porting) don't make as big of difference.

Edit: hood is off my car now, 351M is out and on the floor in the shop. I'm headed to go get the bellhousing later this morning and hope the motor mounts show up quick. Everything else is bought (oil, filters, hoses, belts, coolant, clamps, etc) and ready to rock. I have my ad up on CL for the leftover bits I'll have. If all goes well I'll make most of the labor money back selling bits!

Edit 2: bellhousing is delivered to the shop, still waiting on motor mounts, hoping pilot diameter whachamacallit matches up...

Edited by occupant - 28-December-2010 at 10:14AM