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Ping at cruise speed

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Inkara1 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17-February-2024 at 11:22AM
I'm having a hard time chasing down a ping I have at 40-60 mph cruising. Engine is 351C-2V with cast iron 4V intake. Distributor is a duraspark of unknown origin, and I have the heaviest springs I can get out of the Mr. Gasket GM GEI kit (only advance curve I can get) on the advance, with it set to the 10L side of the weights. I have initial timing set at 11-ish degrees, so all-in timing is just 31 degrees. Driving around with no vacuum advance, I don't hear the tap-tap-tap noise at those speeds, and in general I'm satisfied with things regarding pinging. With the vacuum advance hooked up, I get the noise. The canister I had on it was advancing things by 20+ degrees, so I put on a Standard VC230 meant for a 1974 F100 with 390 because that one only advances timing by 12 degrees. I have the adjustment screw turned out until it clicks, and after putting a Mitivac on it, I found it pulls the full 12 degrees of advance at 13-14 inches of vacuum. My idle vacuum is 16-16.5 degrees with vacuum advance unplugged at about 2,800 feet elevation.

So do I need to find a vacuum advance that can fit a Ford distributor that will advance timing less? If so, which one should I look for? Or is my next step to go up one size on the carburetor main gets?
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 11:58AM
what is your vacuum source for the vac advance, direct intake manifold or ported / timed vacuum?

square bore or spreadbore 4V intake, what carb?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 12:05PM
It's currently on ported vacuum, but I've tried both with no change in this particular result.

It's a squarebore intake with a 600 CFM Holley Street Warrior on it with I believe #68 main jets. Carb is on a phenolic spacer to cut down on the gas smell after shutting off the engine.

Is there a chance the 4V intake runners to 2V head port mismatch could be making things a little lean due to turbulence?
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 12:17PM
and you're at 2800' ? that should make it near impossible to ping a combo that's not extremely out of whack, actually you can get away with an extremely out of whack combo that would knock like Orville Redenbacher near sea level. you're sure there's no vacuum leak / lean condition? is the carb heat circuit in the manifold carb pad drilled or is it unmachined / blocked / non-operational?

if you turn the vac pod screw inwards does that limit the amount of vac travel to less than 20* ?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 12:26PM
All turning the screw does is affect when the timing goes in, not how much. I switched from the 20+ degree canister 20 a 12-degree one, and I have it adjusted all the way out until it clicked, so it's as late as it'll get and still 12 degrees at 14" vacuum (I pulled vacuum on it while idling with a timing light and it advanced it 12 degrees). I don't want to back it out any more than when it clicks so the screw doesn't come out of its mount and thus ruin the canister.

I guess my next step then is to go from 68 to 70 on the main jets?

For the heat circuit on the carb pad, I'd have to pull the carb to look.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 12:39PM
my thinking the adjuster affects load on a spring, making it more or less difficult for the vacuum to pull on? if you were to add tension to the spring in the can, your given amount of vacuum would be able to pull it less? being all the way loose the spring is at it's easiest position to be pulled on so you're getting the full travel. but anyway the 12* you're seeing is still workable for where i was going, to convert to direct manifold vac but you say it doesn't make a difference either way ATM, i'm thinking something else is going on that the vac adv can't affect

is this your carb give or take for the finish? they're showing a 66 jet in front

https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/carburetors/street/parts/0-80457S

what do the plugs look like, do they need more color? are you familiar with the timing line on the ground strap?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 1:13PM
Backing the screw out increases tension on the vacuum canisters instead of decreasing it. If I go righty-tightey on the screw, timing comes in earlier.

That is indeed the carb I have. It came with 66 jets but I swapped them for 68 at some point a few years back. The plugs are mostly white with a little bit of tan at the bottom, and all 8 are pretty similar.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 1:36PM
yeah it would depend on how the can is constructed, hard to see through metal from here LOL but the description i've heard is that to use manifold vac you want the vac limited to about 10*-12* for things to work out. a normal nonadjustable can can provide 50* or more so imagine that on Full Pull direct manifold vac!

how 'heavy' are those GM curve kit springs? i know the stock Ford heavy springs are pretty darn holy cow heavy, i can't imagine Mr Gasket supplying anything like them in their kit? another thing might be going on, are you sure the advance weights are returning to idle position with those Mr Garbage springs? sometimes the weights get dry & crusty, need a little lube or they hang up stuck flung out. i think i'd source some stock Ford springs before doing the jets, sucks that they're under the advance plate but better than float bowls IMO. any chance there's an operational dizzy machine in your area to set the mechanical All In By rpm 1 time?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 1:54PM
I have no idea about if anyone in my corner of high desert has a distributor machine.

I just put the springs on last night. Before that, it had one "medium" and one "light" out of that kit.

I've been taking carb off and switching the jets as we post here, so I'll see how 70 jets do.

But also, I went to look into the thing about the carb pad, and found out it's actually aluminum and thus aftermarket. Grabbed a magnet and it won't stick to it (but it does stick to the steel valve cover). No brand name or numbers anywhere that I can find, but it looks like an Edelbrock 2750 from on top. I can say I feel like an idiot for all those times I said it was a 4V intake.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 2:25PM
good news you just saved a couple hundo and the job's already done Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-February-2024 at 4:14PM
So going from 68 to 70 jets made little if any difference.

Would changing distributors possibly help me out? Maybe a hotter spark, better controlled, more adjustability, etc.? If so, which would people recommend?
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2024 at 5:31AM
how sure are you that your balancer inertia ring (and the timing scale) hasn't slipped?

i'd find 2 heavy Ford springs before swapping the entire dizzy. what's the rest of your ignition, is it Duraspark Hall / shutter effect electronic pick-up, any MSD 6A thing going on? asking because there's a possibility of polarity causing significant advance if reversed, and it depends if the box is analog or digital as to which polarity is correct. wire colors are often not matched for correct polarity even though that's the way they're set in the connectors from NIB




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2024 at 8:14AM
I changed the harmonic balancer last summer while trying to chase down a  vibration in park between 1,500 and 2,000 RPM, so it's new. (That didn't solve the vibration, unfortunately.)

So the duraspark hall effect distributor is controlled by an unlabeled duraspark box with a blue wire strain relief, spliced directly into wiring instead of having the plugs that can plug in to make swapping a dead unit easy. No MSD box or anything like that. It has a stock-looking coil, but I can't see the labeling to tell if it requires a resistor.

The reason I was thinking of swapping distributors is because I found a Summit Racing ready-to-run distributor with the small diameter cap, which would get the springs to just below the rotor, saving time on getting it dialed in, and the vacuum advance adjustment adjusts the advance amount instead of the rate. It's designed to start advancing at 6 inches of vacuum and max out at 18 inches. The instructions say it's set at the factory to advance timing 5-7 crankshaft degrees at 15 inches. I can dial that back if I get pinging. It's getting hard to find a vacuum advance for the duraspark that will work for my needs -- the ones I find almost always don't say in the description how many degrees they advance, and most don't have a number stamped on the arm for me to double to find out the crankshaft degrees of advance. I only bought the one for a 1974 F100 with 390 because someone on one of the 429/460 forums said that one only advances by 12 degrees, and I was looking to step down from the 20 or more degrees I had before. Then I was thinking I could run the Pertronix Flamethrower coil I already have to get a more powerful spark since I wouldn't be running through a resistor wire anymore.

With the 2 heavy HEI springs, I get no pinging with the vacuum advance unhooked. But I want the vacuum advance because I struggle to get 12 mpg as it is, so I don't want to make my fuel economy worse.

I'm also considering doing the trick of dribbling water down the throat while revving the engine to steam clean out any carbon that might be in the cylinders. I've sprayed in SeaFoam before, but not the whole can. I don't know how much carbon might be in there from prior ownership, and I don't have a boroscope to look in through the spark plug holes.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18-February-2024 at 1:39PM
i'm hesitant to spend big chunks of others' money but i'm running out of ideas, maybe try swapping polarity of the hall sensor & retime, see what it does? i hate the mystery built into the advance cans too, maybe stepping over to a different platform will make things easier to get where you need to be. i just had a thought there's 2 wires that power the Dura-module, white & red from Ford. some boxes have built in start retard / others don't, could that be an issue, IDK ... seems like probably not
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2024 at 8:08AM
Something else that I don't know if it's worth mentioning: there's a little bit of oil under the distributor cap. Not much, but I thought it should be none. It also looks like a bit of oil residue under the breaker plate, but no puddles or anything like that. Also, the weights have white bushings like in the attached photo, and the top of one of the bushings is cracked and partially missing. I don't know if either of these make a difference, although I'd think that since I can get it to stop pinging if I unhook the vacuum advance, it wouldn't be the issue.



I was looking around at distributor units, and I can get an Autoline rebuild of an original distributor for 335 and 385 series engines (D4006), which would be cheaper and would *hopefully* come curved close to my application. I don't suspect any issues with the duraspark control box because it starts and runs at any temperature (but I do carry a spare box just in case). I just don't know if I'd still have too much vacuum advance that way.

I still like the Summit one, but my hesitation is that if the module goes, I'd have to take the whole distributor apart to change it. I would like to buy a spare module in case I have to swap one on the side of the road, but having to pull the distributor, remove the gear, and pull out the shaft doesn't seem like a "roadside repair" to me.

The Pertronix distributors all seem to have a steel gear. I can't seem to find a definitive answer one way or the other whether the Pertronix gear will play nice with the gear on a factory cam. If it will, the "stock look" is available with the Ignitor I module, which appeals to me because I bought one of those earlier but never used it, so I already have a spare. But I can't find info on the adjustable vacuum advance. Their billet ones move the weights and springs up top, but only come with Ignitor II or III, so I'd have to buy another module if I want to have a spare. (And again with the steel gear.)

Jegs has a few nice looking house-brand distributors, but they don't give info about things like how much vacuum advance or how easy it is to swap a module, and their site doesn't make it as easy as Summit to find replacement parts to help me figure that stuff out myself.

I want to stay away from MSD because I've seen too many stories about quality going in the toilet but prices still being high.

There's a ProComp unit including a coil for $150, but I can't tell what material the gear is, I don't know about long-term reliability, and I can't tell if the vacuum advance is adjustable (I kind of doubt it because the vacuum hooks to the top of the canister instead of the front.) But ProComp is apparently Australian in origin, and I know Cleveland V8s were a big deal down under.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-February-2024 at 4:00PM
i'd be leery of the 'house brand' offerings being offshore and proprietary guts, but i haven't studied on them much yet. Pertronix in Fords just seems to always end up a PITA. there are new units out there that look like OEM but are completely different internally, IIRC they had some nice features but cheesy AF on others. not sure i'm a fan of those either. not long ago i was keen to get a genuine Aus Bosch unit because i like the flat mounting surface to use a GM module, mostly all i found was aftermarket / offshore copies and yes no telling what the vac pod is set up to do. can't a guy just get a decent Lightning Whirler?

FWIW i think the MSD's are Ford pattern as far as the pick-up modules and reluctors go so replacements are easy to find, and the distributor housings/ shafts / bearings are said to be pretty good stuff it's just their spark boxes that have earned the moniker Most Suddenly Die. and yes they're still proud of their work regardless of where it's done. an MSD Whirler can run your existing Dura-module or they have Ready To Run's with i'm guessing a GM module inside?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2024 at 10:08AM
So Rock Auto has a reman distributor from Autoline for a 351C with points available in a version without the vacuum retard system, and the vacuum advance in the photo on that shows as the kind where you can unscrew the end and access the shims and spring. Might I be best off getting that distributor and then converting it to the Pertronix Ignitor 1 with Flamethrower coil that I already have? It won't get me my goal of having the advance springs up top, but hopefully it would be curved close to what my engine needs already, and I'd have some control over the vacuum advance amount and rate (if I can find the stuff to change that). I have a good experience with the Pertronix Ignitor 1 in the '62 Fairlane, even driving at highway speeds in 112-degree weather. If I do have to put in a spare Pertronix module, I can do it on the side of the road without having to remove the entire distributor.

Thoughts?

Also, I went and got an inspection camera so I can pull the plugs and look for carbon deposits in the combustion chambers.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2024 at 12:15PM
I ran a rebuilt distributor with a Pertronix for a while as my original distributor had been damaged. It worked well, no issues at all. The curve on that parts store distributor seemed to work well with my stockish engine I was running at that time. It might be a cheap option to get the car running properly.  I don't think your manifold interface would cause pinging, but that is something I would address at some point if it were my car. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20-February-2024 at 5:16PM
So I went ahead and ordered the Autoline reman points distributor to put my pertronix into. Luckily, I got a $200 Visa gift card for placing second in my work's football pick-em pool, so that covered the lightning whirler and new valve cover gaskets. Should be here on Tuesday.

I looked in two of the cylinders with the new camera, and there's just a little bit of carbon in a few spots. Otherwise, I can even see the concentric ring design on the flat-top pistons. I unfortunately can't get the angle to look at the combustion chambers to judge their condition, but I don't think carbon deposits are raising my compression ratio.

So I was poking around at the wiring to see if I could find the 12V keyed power source. Came to find out that the red and very light green wire was still hooked to the coil (looks like the original yellow top), and wires were run from the + and - terminals across the engine inside a loom down to the Duraspark module next to the washer fluid reservoir, spliced into the wiring on it. The other colors were hooked to some kind of generic four-wire plug, and two wires from that were hooked to two conductors in what looks like a 6-foot length of telephone wire, run along the fender, up and over the brake booster, and up to the front of the engine where it was spliced into the distributor. I thought one would want to run thicker gauge wire than telephone wire to trigger the distributor. When I tested the wire from the ignition, it read over 12V, but I think the resistor wire only drops voltage under a load, so a multimeter checking it with the engine not running will show battery voltage instead of a lower number. So I think the Duraspark system might have been running on reduced voltage AND the distributor was being served by thin-gauge wiring. Am I right in being surprised the prior owner's hack job worked and never left me stranded?
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2024 at 12:29PM
is this engine believed to be stock or might it have a very small cam in it? even if it does i don't think even a Comp 252H could cause DCR issues? but i wonder if you've tried feeding it some serious octane? as far as the wiring now you've got me wondering again if the Durabox power source wires can be causing an unintended advance condition, i wish i could see what you've got going on from here. from the time i played with retrofitting a Duraspark i remember there being a red and a white wire, one connects to the start circuit and the other to the run but i don't recall which is which ATM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21-February-2024 at 1:42PM
I'm 99% sure the engine had never been apart before I got it, except to install the aluminum 4-barrel intake, replace the timing chain with a double roller, and put in the Duraspark. (I found pieces of the nylon timing set in the oil pan when I went to change the rear main seal.) I'd be extremely surprised if the cam that's in it now isn't the one that it left the assembly line with.

Given the hackjobs on this car I've found, I'd almost want to verify the prior owner didn't install the camshaft gear to the 4-degree retarded position or something, except I don't feel like removing all the accessories if the water pump isn't leaking. But side question: could futzing with how advanced or retarded the cam is make an engine want less timing? I thought Clevelands were supposed to want lots of timing early, but mine seems like the opposite of that.

As for fuel, premium in California is 91 octane. I'd been running that exclusively until very recently because I figured the 2V used regular fuel when it was new. It was after I put in 87-octane that I noticed the noise went away when I'd give it more or less throttle, but it had been making the noise for a long time before that. I thought it was the speedometer cable (the speedo needle does shake a little bit up to 20-30 mph). I used up half a tank so I could put premium back in, and put 10 gallons of it into my 20-gallon tank to make 89 octane (half 87, half 91). It made no difference.

Here is a picture of the wiring for the Duraspark box. The power wires are connected to the + and - terminals at the coil, and come in through that blue wire conduit you can see a tiny bit of at the edge of the photo. The red and white wires come from the box, are spliced into black wires, and run to a plug. It looks like the white-then-black wire just isn't plugged into anything, so I think the timing retard at start just never happened. I don't know what to make of the other four wires coming out of the module, other than that you can see where two wires are spliced into the phone cable and head toward the distributor.


1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2024 at 12:24PM
i thought i had more schematics but this should do for a start pun intended. red & White are Ign switch IDK why Dude has them on the coil or why it works like that? if the White is not connected you should have no spark during crank but it's getting power during crank from the Re wire off the coil



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2024 at 1:02PM
So as best as I can tell from tracing the wires, the black wire coming from the coil - terminal is hooked to the green wire from the duraspark box,  and the orange and purple wires are the ones hooked into the phone cord to head to the distributor. The black wire is connected to another wire that is eventually grounded to the screw that holds the box onto the inner fender. Other forums have said that the white wire is just a sensor wire, that when it sees voltage applied to it, it'll retard timing. Since it's not hooked to anything, I'm just having it start on the same timing as when it runs. If that were something I were going to fix, I could run a white wire to the I terminal on the starter solenoid. (I'd need a new solenoid because mine doesn't an I terminal. The prior owner that installed all this sold it to a junkyard, who sold it to a guy whose wife then told him he had too many projects, so he sold it to me. All the guy I bought it from did was get it to start before he sold it, but he had to put on a solenoid, and the one he put on lacks I terminal.)

So as hacked together as this is, other than not getting retard at start, my only worries are voltage drop between the distributor and the box due to a long run of thin wire, and having too little voltage at the box because it's being fed through the resistor wire, which I'd think would have ruined the box. I believe the resistor wire is still there because the 1972 yellow-top coil would have burned out if it were fed the entire 12V full-time for this long.

But once the new distributor shows up, I'll use the resistor wire to trigger a relay, remove this other stuff to clean up the engine bay, and hopefully enjoy good timing and a hotter spark from the 40,000V coil.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72FordGTS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2024 at 1:49PM
Originally posted by Inkara1 Inkara1 wrote:



But once the new distributor shows up, I'll use the resistor wire to trigger a relay, remove this other stuff to clean up the engine bay, and hopefully enjoy good timing and a hotter spark from the 40,000V coil.


This is exactly what I was going to suggest.  I'd scrap that mess and start from scratch.  Running the relay you can get a clean 12 volts to the ignition.  I have used the setup on both my ignitions, first with the Pertonix and now with my Duaspark/HEI hybrid. 

And yes, a 1972 would have a resistor wire because the coil and points needed to run on the lower voltage.  Only when the ignition switch was in "start" did it get the full 12 volts.
Vince

1972 Ford GTS Sportsroof - Survivor, One Family car

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2024 at 2:42PM
this might be what i was looking for, Duraspark 101, retrofit schematics inside



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2024 at 3:46PM
George says somewhere in the link in the above post that some resistance is needed 

here's more info ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22-February-2024 at 5:34PM
Interesting reading. The way I understood it is that on the blue-grommet Duraspark II setup, it uses a resistor wire for the coil but not for the box, which needs to get 12V from a different keyed source.

But it looks like by switching to the Pertronix Flamethrower coil, I'll get the benefit of the hotter spark that the red Duraspark I setup provides.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23-February-2024 at 11:30AM
yes i believe it's the stock coil that needs some resistance
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28-February-2024 at 7:44AM
So I got the new distributor in, and unfortunately, it's the newer style where you stick a hex wrench into it to adjust it instead of the kind with shims and a spring. But I got the distributor installed and the Pertronix wired up, and found the vacuum advance only pulls 8 degrees of advance when I apply vacuum with the Mitivac. (New distributor has 13 and 18 weights, set to 13, so 26 degrees of mechanical advance.)

So even with the vacuum advance turned 10 turns out to have advance late, and base timing set to just 8 degrees, I still get the ping at cruise. A little bit with vacuum advance disconnected, and mote with vacuum advance. Kind of annoying since with the new distributor, the probably factory original style of curve, the hotter Flamethrower coil, etc., it feels stronger now with 8 degrees of base timing than it did before with the hack-job Duraspark even with 12 degrees of base timing.

BUT... I tried checking for vacuum leaks again. I had sprayed around before and didn't find anything, but this time, I was more specific and sprayed brake cleaner on top of where each intake runner attaches to the head, and I found that when I spray the intake-head union right over there the exhaust crossover would have been, my idle drops by 40-50 RPM. It does it more on the driver's side than the passenger's side. So now I'm thinking I've had an intake vacuum leak all this time and am going lean on some of the cylinders. Looks like time to order new intake gaskets. Hopefully I can then advance the base timing to 10-12 degrees and enjoy the power.

Edited to add: I got the idea to try retorquing the intake bolts to the spec in the 1972 shop manual. I went with 30 ft-lb for the larger bolts and 24 for the smaller ones. All the bolts tightened up at least some before getting to spec. Two weren't much more than hand tight, and another one was straight up loose. I'll take it for a drive either this afternoon or tonight and see if things improve before I buy a new gasket set. 


Edited by Inkara1 - 28-February-2024 at 9:32AM
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Inkara1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29-February-2024 at 11:00AM
So retorquing the intake manifold bolts didn't make much if any difference in the ping noise, but it did smooth my idle. I should probably still change the gaskets though, since with being loose for so long, I wonder if the current gaskets are damaged now.

So today I bent back the tab on what looks like the heavier of the two advance springs (from what I can see through the hole in the breaker plate) and I'll see if that helps tonight. If not, the next step is to build a bushing for the advance weight stop pin by building up layers of heat shrink tubing to limit total mechanical advance.

Oddly enough, I seem to get the most power (quickest 0-60 time  on a nearby back road) with base timing at 6-8 degrees. We'll see how tightening the spring to make advance come later changes that. Also, I still get pinging (albeit less) with the vacuum advance unplugged. New vacuum advance only advances it by 8 degrees, and I have it set to come in as late as it'll let me.
1972 Gran Torino station wagon, light blue, 351C 2V, prior owner upgraded to 4V (2V heads), originally had a C4 but prior owner changed to C6 for some reason.
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