I have a starter from a 1995 Mustang on my 393C. Higher torque and more header clearance. All it takes is a simple wiring change (no modifications).

Wiring change: Swap the battery cable to the starter to the battery side of the inner fender solenoid (so it's a constant hot). The make up a 12-14 gauge wire from the "switched side" of the solenoid to the solenoid on the starter. That's it.

I figured if the $300 starter had plastic, then why not just buy the parts store starter for 1/4 the price. At least it isn't all that expensive when they "pop".

 

I had issues with the Db starter I purchased(wouldn't fully engage after a couple of weeks of use, grinding the flex-plate teeth got old QUICK). Hopefully for others, the Db starter issues were a fluke, or maybe just my luck (2 starters did the exact same thing, the reason I went & bought a JY '96 F350 starter with no more issues). Still have the brand new Db replacement sitting on my shelf, if ever the used Motorcraft gives a hint of a problem. I will say Db was great about handling the 2 warranty replacements, quick and easy, can't say anything bad about their customer service. 

That's useful information.

 

yup I'd rather have a used OEM part than new aftermarket most of the time

 

I hope that beauty I'm not sure where it is works at least as long as it's been sitting now

 

I really hope I never have to find out . The extra starter did do "a ride-along" to Dawsonville and back last month, figured if I had it along I wouldn't need it. Coulda kept 1/2 dozen cars on the road with all the 500lbs of stuff/tools I loaded in the back of my Ranchero , anticipating a problem and never wanting to be stuck on the side of the road(yeah, I have issues).

 

http://www.fordmuscleforums.com/galaxie-pages/528273-will-starter-work-3.html" rel="nofollow">

Both of those diagrams are the same and correct.

More than likely what's happening with the "run the stater all day after you let off the key" is that starter solenoid is hanging up on the starter. There is no way that anyone with any mechanical ability can wire this wrong.

There is some modification to use this starter on your 4 speed. I'll check this out and get back to you shortly. The 5.0L starter is the same for auto & 5 speed...which fits auto in our cars, IIRC.

Pretty sure you have a 164 tooth flywheel which you would need this starter:  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m11000mt164" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m11000mt164 or this one  https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9604" rel="nofollow - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pwm-9604

I have a 351C in the Torino race car with a3 speed toploader 157 tooth flywheel and an aftermarket scattershield with a custom made 3/16 thick engine plate which is the starter mount. The PO had installed a high torque starter and after I replaced the broken engine, I couldn't align the starter. after hours of pulling modifying and re installing the starter and mount plate without success, I chose to pull the trans and inspect the flywheel. I verified that it's 157 teeth, and it was holey, like someone balanced it with the other engine. I replaced it with a billet unit I got a smoking deal on.

While it was out I laid an oem 157 tooth engine plate over the custom plate and scattershield in order to align the starter (modify the mounting) one final time. 

Put it all back together, and when I hit the start button it cranks, but grinds like the GM cars I remenber hearing in the 80s, when the shims weren't right.

So I perused the interwebs and Google's AI says that an AT starter is 3/8 of an inch deeper into the bellhousing than an M/T one.

So I must have an A/T starter? Anyone have measurements available?

A/T and M/T starters also have different register diameters, the circle that engages the block plate and positively locates the starter to align with the ring gear. this is where i feel your issue lies rather than the longer snout length. if it was the snout length you'd never attempt to bolt it up.

and ergo the round cut out in the block plates are different diameters and match their respective starters based on transmission type. are you using an A/T block plate with an M/T starter? simplest way to ID that i know of is, M/T block plates don't have any inspection cover while A/T block plates do have the small removable section

Most of my stuff has historically been AT and the block plate I used for aligning the custom block plate on the car is for an AT.

As you can see I've modified the custom plate quite a bit and the mounting circle probably isn't the problem.

I do not want to put a 164 tooth fw on it because the clutch wouldn't fit and I'm too much into the conservation of personal finances to buy another new one. Not to mention how I'm also into the conservation of personal energy. 

RacerJames wrote: when I hit the start button it cranks but grinds like the GM cars when the shims weren't right the block plate I used for aligning the custom block plate on the car is for an AT I've modified the custom plate quite a bit and the mounting circle probably isn't the problem

the AT plate and the MT plate share the same starter bolt hole locations, the issue comes with the register hole which yours can't possibly be accurate (if it's there at all)? the difference in the registers is only .050" but the slop in the bolt holes has to be much more. just the small register starter in the large register plate will cause issues as in a wiped out starter bendix and ring gear. FWIW have you measured the register on the mini starter? what's the bendix throw? all i can tell ya is it's the precise fit of the starter in the plate that locates the starter

this was originally posted by RobbMc to the old 351C.net forum which no longer pulls up, all the links are fubar but i saved the text in my secret stash. here's the lowdown on Ford starters as RobbMc sees it

"Ford starters are a little complicated. I started working for Tilton in the 1980's and have been designing starters ever since and I still get a little confused at times.

Since the 1960's, most Ford V8 engines (except maybe the new modular motors) use one of three basic starter mounting designs .

The all use the same 9 tooth, 1" diameter gear.

Some use three mounting bolts (such as FE) and some use only two, but fortunately 2 of 3 mounting holes are in the same place so they can be interchanged.

There are three different ring gear offsets (the distance the ring gear is from the starter mounting surface).

SB's and Clevelands with automatics use an offset of 3/4". All FE engines (as well as 5.0L with T5 trans) also use a 3/4" offset. The starter register diameter (ie. the diameter of the hole in the starter mounting plate) is 4.09".

SB's and Clevelands with a 3 or 4 speed manual trans use a 3/8" offset. The starter register diameter is 4.14".

351M/400/429/460 engines use a 5/8" offset. The register diameter is 4.09". The starters for this application are easy to spot as one mounting hole is tapped.

Yes, there are several different ring gears with different tooth counts but this is taken care of by the starter mounting plates. The starter mounting plates for the larger ring gears have the register diameter further from the center of the engine.

I am sure there are exceptions to all the above, but these are the general rules for Ford starters.

If you measure the distance from the mounting surface to the ring gear and measure the starter hole in the mounting plate, you can usually determine which starter you need." ~ RobbMc

This is all well and good, except, how do I bolt the starter in using only this flimsy engine plate?

The scattershield doesn't have a place for the lower bolt to mount hence the custom (thicker) engine plate with a nut welded to the flywheel side. It's an old scattershield. Not like the cool new Lakewood ones with proper mounting holes. Has anyone here run the scattershield I inherited?

Since I had to modify the mount created by the PO, my original question though long winded was "does anyone have measurements of the Ford starters?" From the response "You should measure it" I infer that no, there are no members here with measurements to share. Bummer. My aging spine doesn't like the repeated on and off the creeper. I was hoping for some magic formula to avoid that.

The last page with the detailed OEM starter dimensions should be enough to get very close with a proper manual trans separator plate. That plate should have the starter holes within proper range for your transmission, and then you could fine tune the depth, and bolt locations.

I'd start with the right OEM plate, or a later scatter shield to get the threaded mounting hole.

Apparently the starter I had installed is for an a/t. I got a replacement to fit the m/t, (wilson # 5860) boted it in and voila'! Problem solved.

Part numbers for the correct starter for my application:

You can get one on Ebay today for 45 bucks

https://www.ebay.com/itm/162715114207" rel="nofollow - https://www.ebay.com/itm/162715114207

Very good,  

You had the mounting holes located correctly. That's the hardest part for fabricating a motor plate.

I just wanna race it already! 

72 RS 351 wrote: Exactly, use it to see how close your holes in the motor mount plate are.

quite more than just see, i'm saying install the OEM plate in front of the custom made plate to use the circular register hole to positively locate the starter. the custom plate carries the weight

RacerJames wrote: .... and that the starter nose or distance it travels is the difference.

don't forget the register diameter. i forget which way ATM but the small diameter starter will fit into the large diameter register and be sloppy, grind & rip stuff up

 

I hadn't thought to install the correct plate in front of the custom one. A perfectly logical solution. Another 1/16th inch of spacing shouldn't make much difference to starter engagement.

If I need to remove the trans again for whatever reason (hopefully not!) I might do exactly as suggested.