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Reading the Electrical Schematic

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handsofstone View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 5:11AM
There were many vehicles using the same part. I doubt they would just deteriorate over time. They are most likely in some storage room with all the other parts we use.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 5:22AM
Originally posted by squarethumps squarethumps wrote:

THANK YOU for that pic.

I wonder if I can get a barrel which matches my existing key ?

actually I'd like to have an original OEM key barrel and lock set.


I would imagine you could get a matching key setup by making a lot of calls to dealerships across the country. I would just get a complete set for ignition and doors from John. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 6:58AM
Originally posted by handsofstone handsofstone wrote:

Do not destroy the cylinder or the column trying to remove it. There is a small slot under the turn signal switch that is paper thin that you just poke a small flat screwdriver through and the key cylinder pops out.


Yes but, the cylinder will only come out when it is turned to the RUN position. That tiny pin only can be pushed in when the key is turned to RUN.

That means it better not fail in any other position, and if you have no key, you cannot turn it to RUN.

Any key cylinder can be re-pinned to match any key. The tumblers inside are replaceable and come in about six different versions. Any locksmith can repin the cylinders, when they are out. They take them apart and change the tumblers. So in theory if the old cylinder has only wear to the tumblers, you might be okay to have the tumblers replaced.

But the cost of a new cylinder is not ridiculously high, many aftermarket choices will be $30 to $50. Some locksmiths will charge something to come to you, onsite like a windshield. I had one come to me in a parking lot in 2007, for two cylinders. It was $40 plus the re-pinning, about $75 as I recall. He was there about 15 minutes, and I was having him do a new ignition key cylinder(OEM 99 Explorer about $70), and a rear hatch used cylinder.

I would not reuse a 25+ year old key cylinder if I had a choice. The headache of dealing with one failed cylinder will teach you that if you haven't experienced it already.

If you find a NOS key cylinder, buy it if the price is good. Time doesn't hurt these things, turning the key inside them excessively does.

Ask your mail carrier how many times each day he/she turns the ignition key from off to start. Due to ongoing run away accidents, a new policy began almost ten ears ago. If the person has to get out of the seat, the key has to come out of the ignition. That means starting and stopping the engine about 40-50 times a day. That accelerates the wear on the key cylinders, and the starter and battery etc.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 9:50AM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

Originally posted by handsofstone handsofstone wrote:

Do not destroy the cylinder or the column trying to remove it. There is a small slot under the turn signal switch that is paper thin that you just poke a small flat screwdriver through and the key cylinder pops out.


Yes but, the cylinder will only come out when it is turned to the RUN position. That tiny pin only can be pushed in when the key is turned to RUN.

That means it better not fail in any other position, and if you have no key, you cannot turn it to RUN.

Any key cylinder can be re-pinned to match any key. The tumblers inside are replaceable and come in about six different versions. Any locksmith can repin the cylinders, when they are out. They take them apart and change the tumblers. So in theory if the old cylinder has only wear to the tumblers, you might be okay to have the tumblers replaced.

But the cost of a new cylinder is not ridiculously high, many aftermarket choices will be $30 to $50. Some locksmiths will charge something to come to you, onsite like a windshield. I had one come to me in a parking lot in 2007, for two cylinders. It was $40 plus the re-pinning, about $75 as I recall. He was there about 15 minutes, and I was having him do a new ignition key cylinder(OEM 99 Explorer about $70), and a rear hatch used cylinder.

I would not reuse a 25+ year old key cylinder if I had a choice. The headache of dealing with one failed cylinder will teach you that if you haven't experienced it already.

If you find a NOS key cylinder, buy it if the price is good. Time doesn't hurt these things, turning the key inside them excessively does.

Ask your mail carrier how many times each day he/she turns the ignition key from off to start. Due to ongoing run away accidents, a new policy began almost ten ears ago. If the person has to get out of the seat, the key has to come out of the ignition. That means starting and stopping the engine about 40-50 times a day. That accelerates the wear on the key cylinders, and the starter and battery etc.




Thank you very much for this explanation. Yes, it makes sense that the key has to be in and turned to the RUN position for the cylinder to pop out. Easy to steal if you didn't need the key.

I found an NOS OEM one in original unopened packaging ( it looked like it was still in the "cosmoline" wrapper lol) in a city near me for like 35$ $ with free shipping.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 10:01AM
Excellent, that is a great deal and wise maintenance item for any very old car.

I have bought about three ignition key cylinders for my project Fords. My 92 Lincoln I have a 2004 Marauder steering column with key for. That was a 75k mile car, I might buy one for that some day. For my Ranchero, I have my old 93 Explorer column to put in, and a new steering wheel from a late 80's truck. I got a new key cylinder for that also, I knew its condition given how I had it for almost 40k miles, until I parted it out at 112,622 miles.

Mixing parts, that's our skill set. Did you know you can use a later model Ford door latch for the older Fords. I have extra new latches from late 90's Explorers. There is one rod connection that is different, but you can adapt it fairly easily. I like them because they have a built in door ajar switch, the OEM door switch can be removed and the hole filled. I plan to connect a Fox Mustang lock actuator to that, those are a simple one hole drilled rivet/bolt, to mount in the door.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote handsofstone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 11:00AM
I missed the part about being in run position.  That was probably anti-theft engineering.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rockatansky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 11:15AM
it's actually not that hard to re-key the tumbler yourself

72 GT Ute
   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 12:36PM
I was kinda in the ballpark on the spelling LOL

As far as resetting the tumblers... I guess I don't really need to do that. The ignition key is different from the door / trunk keys anyway. The cylinders that are on the car for those all seem functional. I think I just put the new ignition cylinder in and use that key.


My key buzzer ( the one for the fuse box ) came today. THANKS @californiajohnny !!

Also arrived are a couple new LED to finish out all those in the dash cluster and the light above the Windshield Washer switch.

progress is coming !





Edited by squarethumps - 09-December-2020 at 12:43PM
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 1:52PM
don is correct!! yes a locksmith can change the new one to match your old key that matches your door locks just take him both cylinders... ign/door are the same, separate trunk key!

 btw i figured out how to remove a cylinder without a key and not destroy the column Wink
JOHN
74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 2:39PM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

don is correct!! yes a locksmith can change the new one to match your old key that matches your door locks just take him both cylinders... ign/door are the same, separate trunk key!

 btw i figured out how to remove a cylinder without a key and not destroy the column Wink


hmm ... I'll have to try that .. I thought that the round key was for the doors and trunk, and the square key was only for the ignition. If the square key is fitting for the doors then I'll get it set.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 3:45PM
Ford has done odd things with keys over the decades. In the 80's the police cars used just one key for everything in the car, ignition, trunk, glovebox etc. I had both a 1985 and 86 Crown Vic P71 at one time, and for an emergency key at work, I had one key cut that would work in both cars, for everything in both. You just took the two car keys to a place that could make/cut a key, and have one side cut for each old key.

The later Fords evidently had a weak column area around the key cylinder, a thin small screw driver could be used to force some pin on the outside surface to break, allowing the internals to be turned without a key. That was the only trick I saw when hunting for a method for my lost key 91 Lincoln. That didn't work for my car, the metal was much thicker around the cylinder.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 3:50PM
Originally posted by Rockatansky Rockatansky wrote:

it's actually not that hard to re-key the tumbler yourself
...


I watched the tumblers being replaced in the two key cylinders I needed done. I forgot the detail of how he took it apart, but I'm sure that there are plenty of how-to's online to follow. Getting it apart and figuring how the tumblers R&R is the only tricky part. Once you know how that is done, the process of changing the tumblers was easy to do.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 4:06PM
Originally posted by 72 RS 351 72 RS 351 wrote:

Ford has done odd things with keys over the decades. In the 80's the police cars used just one key for everything in the car, ignition, trunk, glovebox etc. I had both a 1985 and 86 Crown Vic P71 at one time, and for an emergency key at work, I had one key cut that would work in both cars, for everything in both. You just took the two car keys to a place that could make/cut a key, and have one side cut for each old key.

The later Fords evidently had a weak column area around the key cylinder, a thin small screw driver could be used to force some pin on the outside surface to break, allowing the internals to be turned without a key. That was the only trick I saw when hunting for a method for my lost key 91 Lincoln. That didn't work for my car, the metal was much thicker around the cylinder.



LOL wow that's cool with cutting the keys differently on each side. I guess it would save you from pulling the cylinders out of one car to make it match the keys from the other car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09-December-2020 at 4:35PM
It worked but I didn't want to use that kind of key all the time. My current 73 Ranchero came with three keys, one for each door, and the ignition. That's a pain to remember which is which.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 3:02AM
so .... I DO need to take the steering wheel off to get the key cylinder out ?

Is that correct ?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 3:22AM
No, just the plastic cover around the column and key area(typically three long Phillips screws). Then find the tiny pin to push in on the bottom of the key cylinder. Place the key in and turn to run, push the pin upward(in), and the cylinder should pull out without much effort.

I'd disconnect the battery cable to be careful with having the ignition on.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 12:47PM
I have the ignition switch entirely removed at the moment.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 1:22PM
so ... I should be able to pop it out with a rod that will fit in that hole I put my finger on in these pics ?










thank !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 1:27PM
The reason I question is because the drawn hole in the diagram seems to be in a different location.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 3:40PM
Wow, it's been ages since I was into my old 72 Gran Torino column. I had to replace that key cylinder in the early 80's, that was my first experience with those.

The pin to push in is part of the key cylinder. When you get the new one, look at the side of it near the back end. The pin should be on the bottom side as it's held in the normal orientation. It's basically a tiny button(pin) that sticks out and locks the whole thing inside the column.

So getting at that pin while in the column isn't as easy as I remember it.
Don
73 Ranchero "Sport 72 front end", floor shift/console, planning EFI 7000+ rpm 351-4V &4R70W
73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 3:53PM
yes -- I see that little push pin on the new key cylinder and can see how it pushes in only when the key is in the RUN position, but when I examine the column, there seems like no way to get to to it push that little pin in. There's like a ... cast housing around most of the cylinder it seems, probably except a little hole where .. some tool can be used to push in that pin. .. I've even kind of looked in that hole with this cool USB camera ( yes one of those 19.99 jobs from the cheapo ads .. works great for focus and light ).   I wasn't able to see the pin at all .. I can't really tell what I'm looking at, but it doesn't look like that pin.

I would love to not have to take off the steering wheel. It looks like a couple of the hex heads that hold it on are a bit stripped.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 4:01PM
LOLOLOLOL   I just realize that the hex head I was referring to are plastic and part of the horn assembly and it just pulls off .. Now I can see the main steering wheel nut.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 4:02PM
no the place to push the pin in is inside under the turn signal switch
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74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 5:15PM
OK !!!   

The new key switch is IN !! Thanks John for the pics !!

The ACC position now can be turned on and tested and I'm back to the wiring --- WOW was that a detour !!!

key cylinder is in, now the ignition switch and then back to the peripherals -- ash tray light, glove box light, interior under dash illumination and the seat belt stuff. I hope I can make it all work and as close to original as I can ( yes I know the interior is like .. NOT original nor even correct with the S&H car, but that's ok for now ) ..

I also got the two buzzers and I can move on to testing those and then the rest of the system.

HAPPY PROGRESS TODAY --

Thanks !!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 72 RS 351 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16-December-2020 at 9:57PM
Well done, those details and the electrical stuff is great to get finished right.
Don
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73 Ranchero GT 351C-4V &4R70W for sale later.
92 Lincoln Mark VII SE GTC, OBDII 347/4R70W
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17-December-2020 at 3:05AM
 Wink
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74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19-December-2020 at 2:09AM
I think I am missing some other harness.   If you please :

I have the light for the ash tray. Have a look at the connector. I don't seem to have the other side of the connector attached to the harness in the car :



I have the glove box switch. ( Can someone send me a picture of where / how this switch is mounted ? I can't seem to figure it out ) Again here I don't have the other single barrel connectors which connect to these individually :



Currently on the car's harness I have this 4 pin connection, which seem to have the appropriate colored wires. The brown wire which carries the constant 12v when the headlight switch is pulled out in either position (parking lights or headlights), the black ( constant ground ), the light green wires with yellow stripes(2 of them), which carry constant 12v all the time, and then the light blue with red stripe wire which carries 12v also when the headlight switch is pulled out. ( I forget why it's different than the brown wire right now ).


(I'm also not sure about that little single pin connector on the left with the black with light blue stripe )

but it seems like I am missing this harness 15A856 ( I think that's the one according my schematic )

Can anyone show a picture of this harness or does someone have one ?

I think that's the next thing I'm missing.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2020 at 6:27AM
ugh .. more issue .. the brake light wire pin in the connector for the instrument cluster has broken. It's the "spring" part of that pin that has cracked and broken so the pin doesn't actually touch the copper strip on the circuit on the back of the cluster.   

I thought about try to make a little piece of metal or something, but thought I'd ask here ( and refresh my last questions ), if someone has either a pin or an old connector and can send it ?   

Thank you very much !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote californiajohnny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2020 at 6:58AM
you need 1 of the 14 pin main connector flat pins??? i have the harness that i cut the other connector from... its good but has a rusted fuse box  i can remove 1 from it...
 IIRC the glove box switch is in the top area by the glove box rubber bumpers... the light is in the left side of the liner if i remember right?
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74 GRAN TORINO S&H CLONE
74 VETTE CUSTOM
90 S10 BLAZER 4X4 LIFTED
77 CELICA CUSTOM
75 V8 MONZA SUPERCHARGED
79 COURIER VERT. SLAMMED
75 VEGA V6 5 SPD
70 CHEV C10 P/U
68 MUSTANG FB CONVERSION
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote squarethumps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26-December-2020 at 7:12AM
Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:

you need 1 of the 14 pin main connector flat pins??? i have the harness that i cut the other connector from... its good but has a rusted fuse box  i can remove 1 from it...





It seems that the spring part for the pin for the ground wire ( red w/ yellow hash ) is broken. I also see that pin on the other side for the high beam seems to be similarly broken.   

So it seems that I need 2 of those kinds of pins, but if there was a connector with good pins and the correct wires that was cut, I could just solder on the new end /wire.

Originally posted by californiajohnny californiajohnny wrote:


 IIRC the glove box switch is in the top area by the glove box rubber bumpers... the light is in the left side of the liner if i remember right?


ya I can't see how this switch .. fits into the liner such that the wires are outside the liner and the light is inside but not beaming into the persons eyes lol
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